Starting out - get a quick start this spring doing terms deals

Starting out - get a quick start this spring doing terms deals

Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

i'm starting this thread and I'm going to try to make a post every day on how to get a quick start this spring.

For 30 years I've done my best to give us our two offers a cash offer in terms of. Terms offers a more attractive because the seller generally makes more money. But Sellers need to be creative.

How do you find sellers that are willing to be creative?

I think the easiest way is to either find properties that are for sale already with long days on the market or DOM or look for expired listings

These people are trying to sell and they're not having a good time doing it the traditional way

So what do you do?

If your license, you can't really go after long days on the market folks because it goes against your ethics as an agent

But if you're not licensed, you can knock on their door and say I understand your agent as Mabel to sell your house in a while, would you be interested in doing outside the box and getting a possible solution to your house problem?

Now I know some of you might think you're interfering with a listing agreement between the seller and the agent. If the seller is not performing, getting a cash offer that's acceptable to the seller, then perhaps the seller can work out arrangement with the realtor

If it's an expired listing, I don't know if people realize this book many new agents go after expired listings, and they try to convince the home seller that their company or their marketing ability is better than what they had tried and they want to relist the house

If you are licensed, and you have a list of expired listings, you can knock on their door, and say, I understand you tried to sell before with an agent it didn't work out? Would you be open to a creative idea? It'll take me about 15 20minutes to go over it with you. Boom you're in the door.

Now  what kind of solution are you going to talk to him about?

Well the existing financing is high in the loan-to-value was high 95% loan to value, every little equity, and the cost to sell the house including the commissions, closing costs, sellers concessions, spruce up costs and holding costs, all these add up to a good amount of money to be taken out of the proceeds of the sale

So for number sequence it's 100,000 and you show the seller that it's going to take about 1012% of the value of the house if they owe 95% and they got to pay to get rid of the house

So what's the alternative? Well selling on terms entails, if you don't know, some going to rent to own arrangement, or rent them purchase arrangement, or some kind of subject to existing financing, or some kind of wraparound mortgage.

So for us in equity, you going to basically look at everything, the condition, with the sellers need, the urgency for the sellers, existing financing, their comfort level with the due on sale clause with such two in the wrapper on my goods, the lease to own, etc.

To ease for you to profit with no equity deal on the following:

One is you can lease with an option and then assign the deal for a fee. No lease options have different rules in different states. So you should have an attorney that knows lease options really well.

Secondly you can look at subject to existing financing or wrap around mortgages.

To show the difference what I usually do is roll I know y'all up and show the sellers that what's in it for them on the lease to own arrangement and what's in it for them on subject to, the lease to own their going to have to turn into investment property and get landlords insurance and they're responsible for maintenance, and they have to follow the state laws as far as being a landlord

I'm subject to, you buy the property subject to existing financing, and your exit is generally a lease to own or renting it out. Because the due on sale clause, I recommend that you try to get a quick sale within a year to be able to satisfy the existing financing being paid off in full

The nice thing about helping sellers of every little equity is that you don't need to get a bank loan to make some money, and you don't need great credit to be able to run a business that helps seller solve problems, especially Low or No equity.

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Investor · North Richland Hills, TX · Member since 2011 · 789 posts · 403 votes
11y

@Brian Gibbons   I enjoy your posts....could you make them more lengthy? I tried to print them but ran out of ink.... WHEEE!!!!! :)

@Tim Macy LO's are alive and well in TX...but none knows it...(can you say opportunity!?!?!)

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  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Man I did that on my iphone!

    Here is a better version:

    I'm starting this thread and I'm going to try to make a post every day on how to get a quick start this spring.

    For 30 years I've done my best to give home sellers two offers: a cash offer and a terms offer.

    Terms offers a more attractive because the seller generally makes more money.
    But Sellers need to be creative.

    How do you find sellers that are willing to be creative?

    I think the easiest way is to either find properties that are for sale already with long days on the market or DOM or look for expired listings

    These people are trying to sell and they're not having an easy time doing it the traditional way

    So what do you do?

    If you are licensed, you can't really go after "long days on the market" folks because it goes against your ethics as an agent to interfere with an agent's listing.

    But if you're not licensed, you can knock on their door and say
    "I understand your agent tried to sell your house in a while back, would you be interested in "an outside the box solution" and getting a solution to your house problem?"

    Now I know some of you might think you're interfering with a listing agreement between the seller and the agent.
    If the seller is not performing, (getting a cash offer that's acceptable to the seller), then perhaps the seller can work out the commission arrangement with the agent.

    If it's an expired listing, I don't know if people realize that many new agents go after expired listings, and they try to convince the home seller that their company or their marketing ability is better than what they had tried before,and they want to possibility to relist the house

    If you are licensed, and you have a list of expired listings, you can knock on their door, and say,
    "I understand you tried to sell before with an agent it didn't work out?
    "Would you be open to a creative idea?
    It'll take me about 15 to 20 minutes to go over it with you. Boom you're in the door.

    Now what kind of solution are you going to talk to him about?

    Well if the existing financing is high, the loan-to-value was high, say 95% loan to value, very little equity, and the cost to sell the house including the commissions, closing costs, sellers concessions, spruce up costs and holding costs, all these add up to a good amount of money to be taken out of the proceeds of the sale.

    So for example, let's say the house is worth with the CMA $100K
    You show the seller that it's going to take about 10% to 12% of the value of the house to sell
    If they owe 95% and they got to pay to get rid of the house (bring cash to closing).

    So what's the alternative?
    Well selling on terms entails, if you don't know, some going to rent to own arrangement, or rent then purchase arrangement, or some kind of subject to existing financing, or some kind of wraparound mortgage.

    To analyze the house sale, you going to basically look at everything, the condition, what the sellers need, the urgency (time line) for the sellers, existing financing, their comfort level with the due on sale clause with sub2 and the wrap around mortgage, the lease to own (being a landlord), etc.

    For you to profit with no equity deal:

    One is you can lease with an option and then assign the deal for a fee.
    Lease options have different rules in different states.
    So you should have an attorney that knows lease options really well.

    Secondly you can look at subject to existing financing or wrap around mortgages.

    To show the difference what I usually do is take out a yellow pad and show the sellers that what's in it for them on the lease to own arrangement and what's in it for them on subject to,
    The lease to own: they're going to have to turn their home into an investment property and get landlords insurance and they're responsible for maintenance, and they have to follow the state laws as far as being a landlord.

    In a subject to, you buy the property subject to existing financing, and your exit is generally a lease to own or renting it out.
    Because the due on sale clause, I recommend that you try to get a quick sale within a year to be able to satisfy that the existing financing is being paid off in full.

    The nice thing about helping sellers of every little equity is that you don't need to get a bank loan to make some money, and you don't need great credit, to be able to run a business that helps seller solve problems, especially Low or No equity.

    How much money can you make? Usually 2-3% of the value of the house.
    And if you act as a principal in the transaction, you keep it all.

  • Specialist · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Ha, I was wondering if you were going to go back through your post. I could almost "hear" you as you were speaking... speech to text? Regardless, thanks so much for posting. I am a new investor and this kind of real world information is fantastic. Also, I agree that finding a mentor is critical and hope to connect with someone here in the area (NC) that I can work with. Thanks again.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Warren Ginn 

    You're welcome and I was actually talking to a Raleigh real estate attorney this last month and she was saying that North Carolina hates lease option so you're better off doing some kind of a lease with ROFR or right of first refusal 

    North Carolina has some strange laws on the books that if you do a lease with option with the tenant and you have a problem with the tenant not paying you were objecting to the lease to own arrangement in court, you can't just evict you need to go through some kind of a modified foreclosure

    Now if I was in North Carolina I would set up a shop that basically did counseling for people that were trying to be homeowners 

    I would go down to their bank and put them on a forced savings program with their checking account, with their corporation of course :)

    The loan programs today with FHA offering 3% and shouldn't take very long to get 3% together, and also send them to a good FICO coach

  • Specialist · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Wow, there's a lot to learn. Can you recommend a good RE atty in NC? If so, you can message me directly. Thanks.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    the strategy I recommend in North Carolina around the Raleigh area I would seriously consider doing a subject to and a land trust for an acquisition, and then to do a lease and a ROFR and get somebody to buy it, because you have the due on sale clause on the sub 2

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:

    @Warren Ginn 

    You're welcome and I was actually talking to a Raleigh real estate attorney this last month and she was saying that North Carolina hates lease option so you're better off doing some kind of a lease with ROFR or right of first refusal 

    North Carolina has some strange laws on the books that if you do a lease with option with the tenant and you have a problem with the tenant not paying you were objecting to the lease to own arrangement in court, you can't just evict you need to go through some kind of a modified foreclosure

    Now if I was in North Carolina I would set up a shop that basically did counseling for people that were trying to be homeowners 

    I would go down to their bank and put them on a forced savings program with their checking account, with their corporation of course :)

    The loan programs today with FHA offering 3% and shouldn't take very long to get 3% together, and also send them to a good FICO coach

    The "problem" people in NC have starts when their NC lease option doesn't follow NCGS Ch47G to the letter. When a violation happens, by statute (47G-7. Remedies) the case can't be held in District Court and instead must be held in Superior Court... again by statute 75-1 and 75-1.1

    (See also the difference between District Court and Superior Court.)

    The above is not legal advice and is for entertainment only. NCGS 84.2.1. not applicable.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Thanks for the quotation of the NC real estate statute @Chris Martin !

  • Investor · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 21 votes
    11y

    Great post Brian! The first post, I was kinda scratchin my head with a very confused look on my face...thanks for clearing it up in the 2nd. 

    Question....you say you are going to be making a post a day....is that in this thread or each one a different thread? Just want to follow along.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Scott Wagoner

    Regarding the 1st post I use my iPhone "text to speech" and it garbled a few words

    Now using a headset and talking into it with Dragon text-to-speech!

    `````````````````````
    Since you're in Florida Scott, I'm going to talk about Florida.

    I live in LA but I'm from Boston. 

    The snow in Boston and New England this winter I think is going to be wonderful advertising for Florida!!

    Who in their right mind wants to freeze their rear end off!

    Housing in Florida, is it coming back, who knows???

    Let's say you want a quick start in Florida.

    It's my philosophy that we do not be a one trick pony, meaning we all specialize in wholesaling flipping, or specialize in retailing rehabbing, but we have a few tools in our toolbox.

    The greatest opportunity in Florida and other places like Arizona, Midwest, etc., housing is reasonable, and the rent to value, is reasonable, is helping sellers that don't a lot equity and they need to sell on terms.

    Cash or terms is the business model. 

    Give a low cash offer which most sellers hate, and explain to them why it's so low, because you need to resell it not to a consumer but to an investor. 

    If they want to go retail that the pay the cost to sell with an agent, which include commissions, closing costs, spruce up costs to compete with all the other houses, like paint, landscaping, etc., and vacant house costs, because houses that are cluttered with people stuff in it just sell a lot longer. 

    Realtors want vacant houses.

    Most agents that arent trained in seller financing, if there's no equity Agents get nervous, because they know that sellers is not going to be happy.

    So why aren't the sellers happy if they had very little equity? 

     Most sellers sell with the intention of buying the next house with equity they have.

    So let's do some subtraction


    sales price $100,000

    1. minus commissions $6000
    2. minus closing costs $2000
    3. minus sellers concessions $3000
    4. minus spruce up costs $2000
    5. minus vacancy costs $4000

    so 6+2+3+2+4= 17,000

    Oh my God that 17% of value the house!

    Is that typical? I think it's typical is 10 to 15% of cheaper houses, when the houses are more expensive the numbers are less percentagewise but it's a lot of money

    $300,000 house

    1. minus commissions $18,000
    2. minus closing costs $6,000
    3. minus sellers concessions $9,000
    4. minus spruce up costs $4000
    5. minus vacancy costs $7000

    so 18+6+9+4+7= $42,000

    30,000 would be 10%, and 45,000 be 15%, so that's about 14-15%

    `````````````````````````````````````
    so low equity house that is 95% loan-to-value, $300,000 house, owes $295,000

    what's the problem there?

    The poor sellers have to pay get rid of that house. 

     If the costs to sell are $42,000, and their $5000 equity, they have to cut a check for 37,000. to sell their house!  Ouch!

    Even if the realtor said "I'll take my commission a note" which they never do, you as the seller still got a big check to pay.

    ``````````````````````````````````````
    How to sell it in person not on the phone but in person

    You need if you negotiating with sellers, and the sellers don't have an agent, need to present a solution, and presenting a solution is a lot like a financial planner would present a solution for financial planning.

    I know this because I have been financial planner since I was 25 years of age.  That's 30 years.

    Talking concepts is very important. 

    Talking with emotion and not logic is very important.

    There's a danger in educating the seller too much and teaching techniques on how to solve the problem is never a good idea.

    I never do that.

    I don't educate sellers.

    I give them WHIFFMs. What is in it for me?  WHIFFMs sell.

    Like for instance all draw line paper. Making 3 columns

    Column 1, selling traditionally with an agent
    column 2, renting it out with a property manager
    column 3, seller financing in Florida

    Column one a go through all the cost to sell with an agent
    and also go through the time it takes to sell with an agent
    days in the market (DOM) tell the average amount of time it takes to sell a house with an agent

    So it's costs money and it costs time

    Column 2, renting it out with a property manager, there are risks and rewards

    A property manager cannot guarantee cash flow so you can make your bank payment
    A property manager cannot guarantee will be no damage
    in a property manager does not keep an eye on the property that much, maybe once in a while

    so if there's an eviction you have to pay for it
    and if this damage you pay for it
    if there's no rent coming in, you have to pay the mortgage

    Column 3, I generally talk about seller financing in general
    there's lease to own and owner financing

    Lease to own you turn the property into an investment property
    you are landlord and you have to pay the mortgage
    your to pay maintenance and taxes and insurance
    hopefully the behavior of your tenant buyer versus a regular tenant is better, money on time, no damage
    the tenant buyer wants to buy the property
    the tenant buyer does not cause you trouble as the landlord
    the buyer wants you the landlord to give them a good recommendation when they try to get the mortgage down the road; they need their landlord to give them verification of rents (VOR)

    Owner financing means you're selling the property and the owners have a deed
    it's a little bit like contract for deed where you pay on a contract, and you can either finish the contract or refinance contract and pay off the existing financing

    How to sell subject to
    it's important that you read this next sentence,
    I DONT BUY SUB2 UNLESS ITS A PERFECT HOUSE
    what's a perfect house?
    4 bedroom 2 bath open plan great backyard
    quiet Street
    two-car garage
    perfect rental
    perfect location
    great neighbors
    I'm going to own it, I'm going to be responsible for making the payment the matter what
    if I'm renting it out in the tenant doesn't pay I still have to make the payment
    if there is maintenance to do I have to do that

    Due on sale clause
    if you probably do subject to the due on sale clause is generally a non-issue in my opinion. This is a fiercely debated topic. 

    When I do is I use land trusts and property trusts. Don't get me wrong: subject to and wraparound mortgages in some kind of lease to own arrangements do give the lender the right to call the loan due.

    Does that mean they do call loan due no matter what once they have the right? I've done them over 30 years I've never had the loan called due.  Not once.

    Here's how to endanger the property and have the lender call the loan due.
    Don't pay the mortgage on time
    and have the insurance policy lapse

    If something's late the mortgage company is going to investigate it.

    If there's no insurance on their investment, the mortgage companies going to investigate it.

    Now if interest rates rise, there might be a reason for lenders to look at their portfolio and review everything.

    I don't know, I just know that if you buy a wraparound mortgage or sub to, and take care of make the payments on time and insurance, and you some kind of trust to protect yourself, youre in pretty good shape.

    Please don't ask me for legal advice, I have a great attorney that takes care of all that stuff

    So to get back to talking to the seller:

    I basically say the seller there's 2 things that I can do to help you. 

    But you MUST be willing to be creative. I'm going to go through your choices, and you tell me which one you like the best, or which one you hate the least!! lol

    So ask you this question a start off: 

    what if, and not even know if I can get this done, because I've to check it out with my business partner, she does all the numbers and crunches the numbers to make sure that it works for us, but what if I could somehow get you a payment for period time that would mirror your PITI payment, your outgoing costs, and this might be for a period time I don't know, say 24 to 36 payments, get some time that create some equity by paying down the mortgage a little, not much, a little,

    Then at the end of this period of time, whatever the mortgage balance is at that time will be the sales price, we call this buying it for the loan balance in the future.

    Would that be something we could even talk about doing or maybe not?

    ```````````````````````````````````````````
    Now I don't know if you invested in  negotiation training but this is called "the what if statement." 

    I'm being a reluctant buyer there, 

    I'm using the what if statement to feel them out, 

    just throwing out an idea, and 

    I'm using appeal to a higher authority with talking over my business partner, and 

    if they get excited about this, I'm not to get excited that they're excited, 

    I'm going to go further and say something like...

    "Oh I see that something that you consider... okay.... tell me exactly why that would be a good fit for you I mean what you like about that?"

    What does this do? Well this is called "reinforcing"

    I use analogy of a rope and TUG OF WAR and there is a line to be pulled over.

    The sellers on one side and you're on the other, and most negotiations it's tug of war.

    Well I don't want to be a tug-of-war.

    I want them to pull me on their side, I don't want to pull them to my side

    This "reinforcing" helps them pull me to their side.

    There's another reason for this, 

    this a nontraditional outside the box kind of solution, 

    and I want to prepare them the sellers to be talking to their friends about what they're doing with their house. 

    They get to answer this question "how you sell your house, how much did you get for it?" to their friends and family.

    This is what I want them to say back:

    "You know we did something unusual, there was an agent that showed us how to get more money by selling on terms versus for cash, so we did a lease to own arrangement, avoided paying a commission and closing costs, saves that money, and they got a pair mortgage payment for period time and then pay off our mortgage. It's a win-win for us we get full price without a commission closing costs, they get a dream house in their neighborhood that they want for their kids and they can get another neighborhood while they rent for a while and then but it."

    So I take a lot of time with the seller to try to get them to think this way. It also avoids buyers remorse, where the seller says "oh my God what I just do??? :(

    NLP has to do with how you hold your hands and look at somebody and talk to them. It's so hard on paper to show you what I mean. Video is easier. The tone-pitch of your voice has to be going down instead of up.

    In the 70's was a wonderful actor called Peter Falk he was in his 40s of the time, how to show call Colombo. The reruns are on all the time.

    Peter Falk was this disheveled, frumpy, police detective in Los Angeles, working homicide.

    Columbo always scratched his head have a cigar have this raincoat. But the biggest thing is how he talked to people. He always did it in a nonthreatening way.

    His language is the way I want my students to talk to sellers. It disarms them. It makes the seller comfortable.

    Talking like Peter Falk and Colombo will help you get terms deals.

    Some that in here and happy Friday everybody, I'll try to get something else up here when I have time.

    I would love everyone that reads this to get motivated to think about having a terms business and cash business

    A terms business is subject to, wraparound mortgages, and lease option assignments.

    A cash business is wholesaling flipping.

    And don't be a one trick pony, 

    have a full toolbox.

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    @Brian Gibbons you are a brilliant man, but you have convinced me that Apple's speech-to-text still has a long way to go!

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Ah Android professional real estate investor, Mr @Dev Horn 

  • Dev HornPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    When the right words are in the right order, you are a genius!  Seriously,  I don't know anyone else that offers so much wisdom in BP posts.  Sometimes your posts are books, but they are always instructive.  Thanks for sharing.

    And for the record, BP nation, @Brian Gibbons has taught me and a bunch of other successful investors & educators a lot about this business.  He's the real deal.  Perhaps the best coach I know in RE investing....

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Awww, @Dev Horn 

    I will reciprocate

    I love your marketing videos.

    Especially the "The Rule Of 7"

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Okay I'm going to title this post

    To get started to the fastest possible start with the least amount of money, how do I get started?

    It is my opinion that the fastest possible way to get started is helping sellers that have very little equity. 

    There Is 20 million of these houses, 20 million. If you're in an area in United States with good affordability, meaning you can rent a house for 600 - 1500, and you can buy houses from 50,000 to  250,000, then you're in a possible seller financing market. This means that the rent compared to PI TI is reasonable.

    You can help the seller sell on terms and save some money for the seller, then you can take that house and rent it out for positive cash flow or lease it with an option

    Say you have a $100,000 house with $95,000 against it, seller has to leave soon, market rent is $800, PITI payment is $600

    You can make 3% by putting together a lease with an option or a lease purchase

    Steps

    1.enter into agreement with the seller as a principal with your LLC. It's helpful to be licensed if you do these. You don't have to act as an agent to enter into an agreement, you act as a principal.

    You just state to the seller that your licensed and your entering into this agreement as a principal. 

    Why get licensed? Well when you flip lease option contracts in most states, the state run agency that governs real estate agents really want you to have a real estate license. They don't care if you flip the contract, they care if you been properly trained. ????

    I train students all over the country  and its just helpful for you to be licensed. 

    Ohio, Florida, and California, it's really important to hold a Realestate sales license doing seller financing.   The Department of real estate estate is aggressive there in those states

    Finding a real estate broker that you can work with isn't easy, because they like to be able to control your work behavior, but there's many places that will allow you to hold your shingle, meaning your license, and you have the regulations covered.

    2. Once the seller agrees to do the lease with option or the lease purchase, you then need to sign a letter of intent, that spells out the terms. This isn't binding, but it allows the deal to move forward. You can then direct the seller to go down to the title company or lawyers office and enter into the lease with option or lease purchase, getting their signatures notarized.

    3. Once you have a legal agreement that you can assign, you then market for tenant buyers. I'll do a whole post on marketing for Tenant buyers later on in another post.  It's important to find the right person for that house that can get the mortgage.

    4. But so let's say you found a tenant buyer, if they have the right income, you need to get them checked out by an RMLO. 

    An RMLO is a registered mortgage loan originator.

    5. If you're in Texas you need to do your homework. @John Jackson on this board is done over 500 lease-option assignments in Texas. I trained him in 2002. There's nobody better in Texas.

    6. There's other states that have unique laws, Louisiana and North Carolina. So we have to do you due diligence about seller financing and lease-options.

    7. After you get the tenant buyer to be checked out by the RMLO, and you have a letter that says that if they pay down debt or improve their FICO score over two years or whatever, they should be able to get a 3% FHA mortgage, you then have a tenant buyer deposit into the title company or's office

    3% assignment fee to you

    first and last months rent to seller

    Sign an assignment contract

    8. I think it's important to get the tenant buyer to get all the money in, so you need the title company or lawyers office to cut a check for first and last months rent to the seller, and a check to you for the 3 % assignment fee.

    9.To have a good attorney that acts for you and helps you in this area is important. 

    Don't try to do it yourself. 

    There are too many things can go wrong

    So I'm going to say in closing here that you are helping a "no equity house" so sellers tried to sell with an agent, it didn't work out.

    So the sellers talk to you about about a lease to own solution where they enter into a lease with an option with your LLC and then you assign the deal for 3% fee for yourself.

    Does that sound like a lot of work for $3000? 

    If you get your systems in place you can get this done in 10 hours or $300 an hour.

    If you got a house that has a more expensive market like 300,000 FMV, then you make $9000 a house on your 3%.

    Lease Option Assignments are a lot easier than the wholesaling business in my opinion. You should be looking for problems with sellers, focusing on expired listings, which is cheap marketing.

    I'll post again tomorrow , have a fun Sat!

  • Specialist · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    Wow @Brian Gibbons . I feel like I just wandered into a training seminar... I just saved this thread down as a PDF (into a "Brian Gibbons" folder) in case you suddenly come to your senses and decide that you're giving away too much for free... Great stuff. I really like reading your "scripts" along with your thinking behind what you're doing and why.

    One question I have as a "newbie" is trying to figure out if this seller-financed approached is directly in conflict with the community of realtors and brokers out there. From what I've read, some encourage investors to go ahead and get their real estate license while other claim that doing so can "muddy the waters" between what your responsibilities are as a realtor vs as an investor. How do you square this? Here in NC, I've heard about investors receiving "nastygrams" from the NC Assoc of Realtors telling them that doing these deals means the investor is acting as a broker and thus they are breaking the law. But I have also heard this can just be a scare tactic from a threatened community just defending their turf.

    I'd like to hear what you think. Thanks again for all the great info!

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    I'm coaching lacrosse right now

    Re your question about agents, 

    I think there's two kinds of agents: first type of agent will do anything to help that seller sell the house whether it's on terms or listing it traditionally but whatever it takes to sell the house.

    Second kind of agent is somebody that holds the 6% solution, if they find a seller with 95% loan to value then they walk away from it because seller  can't afford to sell with an agent, then have to pay to get rid of the house. So that agent doesn't really care about the seller

    And some agents out there they hate real estate investors and They don't want them doing lease-option assignments or wraps or sub2 without being licensed, they think that they're just a bunch a car salesman trying taking advantage of poor sellers

  • Investor · Central, NJ · Member since 2013 · 40 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Brian,

             Great post my man! I've read it a few times in order to understand exactly what you are teaching and it's very interesting. PLEASE keep it up!

    Thanks,

    Rich 

  • Contractor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 68 votes
    11y

    This is fantastic, exactly what my goals are for this year. I've found with the wholesale deals I've done that at least 7 out of 10 calls about the property are looking for rent to own / lease options. I believe my market is primed for this and when I get can get properties locked up with seller financing, I'm golden. I've starting marketing towards term style deals and just waiting for the right motivated seller. Now one thing I have tried is calling the agent about a property with long DOM and bascially getting the door slammed in my face. I believe if more agents were more willing to think creatively they would make so much more.

    I'm looking forward to more info to absorb as I pound the streets.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Warren Ginn:

    ...

    One question I have as a "newbie" is trying to figure out if this seller-financed approached is directly in conflict with the community of realtors and brokers out there. ...

    It depends. Direct conflict? 'Yes' from the standpoint that most brokers will perceive that you are brokering. In addition, 99% of brokers will never have seen this kind of novel approach to "solving" the owner's no equity dilemma. They may likely be confused as to the viability of "the deal", and as you know, a confused mind always says no. On the 'no', it's not in direct conflict side... some brokers may have experience with owner financing. In our state (NC) the "standard" Offer To Purchase and Contract form (NC Bar 2-T) supports seller financing via line 1(d) entitled BY SELLER FINANCING and the accompanying Loan Assumption Addendum  Note though that virtually no NC brokers will entertain a lease with option to purchase deal because the old "standard" form for this kind of transaction is no longer available from the NC Bar, NC REC, or NCAR. Why? Conflicts with NCGS Ch47G I posted earlier along with the fact that these deals are problematic for brokers. And brokers that use that old form? See this recent disciplinary action for a hint.

    When done correctly, these "deals" are not illegal. I'd say they are more for 'advanced' REI and certainly carry some risk when the deal goes bad. From what I see, the problems are investors are not following every requirement in NCGS Ch47G, and/or their contract for leasehold interest is flawed, and/or they lose their buyer.

  • Specialist · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    @Chris Martin So if you connect with a homeowner that is looking to sell their property and has already contracted with a broker, do you typically stray away from those deals because they might resist these more "creative" approaches? One of the keys to understanding true "win-win" situations that makes the most sense to me is understanding how all parties get paid. So if your number take into account paying the brokers their 6% commission and the numbers still make sense, what do they care? They're getting paid, the buyer and seller are happy (each getting what they want) and you get paid my assembling the deal, right?

    Or are you seeking properties where brokers have yet to enter the mix?

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Warren Ginn 

    Let's keep it simple in NC, buy on a wrap or sub 2 and own it, then do a lease and ROFR, get the renter qualified for a mortgage 

    Have your lawyer study the statute @Chris Martin quotes

    See if entering into a lease option then assigning i if possible.

    If you are licensed and have full disclosure to buyers and sellers, that's what this business is all about.

    One of my colleagues , a real estate lawyer, created a lease and contract for option to purchase, you pay the lease then get the option when the lease has completed.

    There can be a lease and delayed sale and purchase with a down payment of say 3 percent could be financed over 24 months, this buyer is a financed sale and needs a RMLO to underwrite the buyer.

    Your seller financing team should be your real estate contract lawyer and your RMLO.

  • Specialist · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:

    @Warren Ginn 

    Let's keep it simple in NC, buy on a wrap or sub 2 and own it, then do a lease and ROFR, get the renter qualified for a mortgage 

    Have your lawyer study the statute @Chris Martin quotes

    See if entering into a lease option then assigning i if possible.

    If you are licensed and have full disclosure to buyers and sellers, that's what this business is all about.

     By "licensed", do you mean a real estate license? Is it necessary to get a real estate license before starting in real estate investing, or can you simply work with a broker?

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Licensed means having a real estate sales license

    But acting as a principal instead of as an agent

    If you buy as a principal buyer you are not "acting agent for."

    If you buy for cash or sub 2 or on a wrap, a license is not mandatory but it's hard to get agents to work with you. 90 per cent of properties are sold via agents.

    Selling on rent to own it's helpful to have a license, especially if your state requires a license to show properties that you do not own for rent.

    Getting a license help get respect from everyone, especially lawyers.

    Get the license but work with your lawyer and act as a principal

  • Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 27 votes
    11y

    Wow Brian

    Your post are right on time and it is obvious you know your "stuff"

    I am also adding the "term" business to my rehabbing business and have already invested over several months of time and education

    Looing forward to seeing more of your posts

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    #1 Biggest mistake in real estate investing: ready, fire, aim

    #2 biggest mistake: not understanding how to talk to sellers.

    Here's what I mean by ready, fire, aim.

    You study all this marketing for motivated seller stuff, how to find motivated sellers, spending money on yellow letters, postcards, scouring the MLS, talking to agents, etc.

    Then you get a phone call, and you choke. 

    You don't know what to say, 

    you don't know your marketplace, 

    you're just trying to get a quick deal done.

    So that's the  2nd biggest mistake, not understanding how to talk to sellers.

    Let's talk about real estate agent's listing appointment training: 

    How agents are trained to get the listing, 

    how excellent their marketing is, 

    how great their negotiating skills are, 

    how good their team is, 

    is is NOT necessarily to talk to sellers about terms deals.

    Most sellers want: 

    the best possible financial result, 

    the most amount of net money from the sale of their house, 

    in the shortest possible time.

    They do NOT want surprises, 

    they do not want buyers saying 

    fix this fix that, 

    pay for this pay for that, 

    they want the most amount of money from their house, and 

    they want speed without hassles.

    Agents today cannot deliver because buyers that are cash qualified ask sellers for lots of things, ask sellers to pay for things that sellers don't want to pay for.

    And a lot of sellers are cash-strapped, so they can't pay cash to fix the things of the house, and they don't want repairs  on credit cards.

    So number 1 mistake ready fire aim.

    This is what I do when I train new or experienced real estate investors: 

    I teach them to talk to sellers 1st, then I teach them the write out of letter of intent to purchase or lease real estate.

    I love pretty houses that need no work that have little equity, because the sellers are stuck, and there's 20 million low equity houses in the United States.

    They can't sell with an agent because the cost to sell are 10% to 15% of the value of the house.

    So they can have 2 choices: rent it out or sell on terms.

    But you can't give them term solutions without interviewing them 1st.

    I posted on biggerpockets.com an article called, "Be the Doctor with the Seller."

    Over 5 years ago I posted it.  It is TIMELESS.

    Here it is:
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
    Be ‘The Doctor’ to Seller’s Problems – Unknown Author

    If you want to really be successful as an investor, you must consider yourself as “The Doctor” to the Seller’s problems. Just like medical doctors, Sellers must see you as being professional, well-educated, acting in their "patient's” best interest, and bound by a high code of ethics.

    The medical process is the same everywhere. Whenever you go to a doctor, of any kind, for any condition, he will follow the three-part sequence of examination, diagnosis and prescription.

    Unfortunately, most new investors do it backwards. They spend all of their time telling the Seller about their company, services, and how great they are, instead of finding out what the Seller wants or needs.

    At the end of the conversation, they know all about the investor, but the truth is that the Seller DOESN’T CARE ABOUT THE INVESTOR! At best, if they haven't fallen asleep or tuned the investor out, they have already made a decision. And that decision is to NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH AN INVESTOR THAT TAKES NO TIME TO UNDERSTAND THEM.

    BEGIN WITH A THOROUGH EXAMINATION

    Just as a medical professional would never think of treating you without following these three steps in order, you as a doctor of selling, would never allow a Seller to force you to sell without you going through your three stages as well. In the examination phase, you ask excellent questions, carefully prepared, in sequence, which are geared to give you a thorough knowledge of the Seller's condition or situation.

    The first thing they do is ask you to fill out a medical history form. They want to know about your ailments, illnesses and injuries.

    Your family's medical history. Are you allergic to any drugs? Have you seen other physicians? Who? When? This history form for investors would be the Seller’s Questionnaire which they fill out to help us determine what their real needs and wants are.

    Then the doctor comes in, asks you lots of questions, and begins to examine you. He listens to your heart and lungs. Taps your knees and elbows with a rubber mallet to check your reflexes. He looks into your eyes and ears, and up your nose with a little flashlight. He makes you open your mouth, pushes down your tongue with a depressor, and makes you say AH, while he looks down your throat (and you start coughing).

    For investors, this examination would be the inspection of the property, where you fill out everything you see right or wrong with the property and take notes of what the costs are for repairing, rehabbing, or minor fixing. Depending upon the answers to the questions and the results of the inspection, more questions will be asked to see what other things we need to know before prescribing a solution.

    The Key Is To Find The Seller’s Pain

    Investors often miss this important variable therefore they don’t really know what strategy to take when dealing with a Seller. If the Seller was not in "pain" they would have never called you, but they did call you because they knew that they had a problem that needed fixing. You've got to discover the financial impact or economic value of the problem. You've got to get the Seller to tell you how much it's costing them or how much sleep they are losing because something isn't right with their house situation.

    DIAGNOSE THE SELLER’S NEEDS ACCURATELY

    The second phase is that of diagnosis. In the diagnosis with a Seller, you would repeat the results of your examination and double check to be sure that the problems that you had detected were the real “pains” being experienced by the Seller. You would ask additional questions to confirm and corroborate. You and the Seller would mutually agree that this diagnosis seems to be an accurate description of the condition or problem.

    MAKE THE RIGHT PRESCRIPTION

    Once this mutual agreement has been reached, and you have identified the “pain” accurately, you can move on to phase three. This is the prescription phase, where you show the Seller that your service is the best available treatment, taking all the factors of the Seller's situation into consideration for their pain. You show that, on balance, what you are suggesting is the best of all possible solutions.

    Investors who sell the way that doctors treat patients find that their deals proceed far more smoothly and result in bigger and better profits in less time. Spend more time asking great questions, and less time talking about yourself and your company, and you'll create more opportunities, close more sales, and make more money. By asking better questions, and being interested in the answers, you can discover what the Seller’s problems and issues are and then offer a solution. Most of the time, if they are not motivated, they will tell you straight out, right then and there. Hopefully, you did not make a trip for them to tell you this, but you learned this when you spoke to them on the phone using the Seller’s Questionnaire to gather information.

    During each conversation, you should ask detailed and pointed questions about what the Seller is trying to accomplish; and what their goals and objectives are. A question I also like to ask is “What would you like to see happen?” And then I LISTEN and take detailed notes about everything the Seller is saying while filling out the Seller’s Questionnaire -- even on appointments. It’s okay, they will respect that you are taking notes on how you can help them better.

    Another good question I like to ask is, “What would you like our company to do to help you?” This question really allows me to find out what the Seller is thinking and exactly how I can help them. So I really don’t have to guess or pressure them because getting to their motivation is just a couple of questions away. And once I ask those key questions, I know I have a deal or not. And to seal the deal, the one question I use is: "When would you like our company to help you in your situation?”

    If the Seller tells you that they have no real timeline, that they will just wait until the property sells, this is often a sign you are not dealing with a motivated Seller.

    Make sure you protect your time by being willing to walk away if it becomes clear that there isn’t enough motivation.

    No matter how the Seller responds, your main goal is to open a line of communication and develop a conversation about the property and the needs of the Seller. I know that some deals take 5-7 contacts before they close so an important aspect of our System is follow-up.

    Even though they may not do business today, they certainly can call you back 3-9 months later because you keep sending postcards and letters and are constantly on their minds. Here is where you separate yourself even further from the other investors and buyers.

    I used to get surprised if they called me after a meeting or a phone conversation I had with them a year ago, but by continuing to send them letters and postcards, they remember me and call me because I was first on their minds.

    So, if you will treat your real estate business like a doctor’s by understanding and diagnosing a Seller’s problems, you will make just as much as doctor and even more.

    ``````````````````````````````````
    Once you have this "heart to heart talk" with the seller, I then go through a 3 column method with the seller.


    Column 1 Selling with an Agent, Paying the Costs to Sell


    Column 2 Renting with a Property Manager, dealing with uncertainty of an unproven tenant


    Column 3 Seller Financing - Helping a Buyer Buy Your Property at Full Price with Less Sales Costs

    There are 5 basic negotiation steps with the seller,

    1. Rapport Building
    2. Avoiding Let Me Think It Over
    3. Uncovering how motivated they really are
    4. Getting the lowest price (Wholesaling Only)
    5. The "What If" Step Close

    That will be in another post.

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