Multi-Units with Building Code Violations?

Multi-Units with Building Code Violations?

Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 44 posts · 0 votes

I'm still in the beginning stages of analyzing properties and learning what is a great investment opportunity and what should be avoided. My realtor sent me an updated listing for a property that we've been monitoring that had another price reduction.

It's for a 6 unit, 2 building 3-flat combo listing, that definitely needs a lot of work. The area is probably considered a C- neighborhood that is a mix of some newer rehab projects, but is still an up and coming neighborhood. There are several other properties that are in need of rehab on the block as well, and some rehabs have already started. It's still in a higher crime area, but very close to the approaching border of drastically lower crime ratings by only a couple of blocks.

The property itself has been reduced by more than 50% in 3 months. The new listing price would have this at <$10k per unit on the sale price only, before any other costs are factored in. I would expect the rehab costs to be on the higher end to bring it up to code and in move-in condition as future rentals. It's a little difficult to find reasonable comps for it. There was a recent rehab 2 flat on the same block just a few doors down that sold less than a year ago for $169k. Another distressed 2-flat sold last fall for $10k, AS IS with major need of rehab. Another 2-flat on the block is listed at auction starting at $1k. So the comps are all over the place!

My biggest question is this…the property is sold AS IS (which is expected) but has several code violations that the buyer would be responsible for. Many of the items on the list of violations are fairly normal stuff (i.e. light fixtures replaced, new electrical outlets and covers, add GFCI's in wet areas, replace some screens/windows, water heaters). It does need structural columns replaced in the basements which is a caution, as well as rear decks being replaced as the are build on cinders and not ground anchored.

Here's where I need the expertise from BP! Has anyone had experience in dealing with code violations and city permits/red tape, etc? Is this even something to consider??

I want to rehab and sell to investors looking to hold and rent, or I am considering the value to even just buy and sell to other investors who have greater resources to develop many properties on the block that could be picked up at some great priced. It's a great tree-lined street, very close to 3 options of public transportation, and 3 blocks from a park. Close to the expressway for commuting as well. The neighborhood is definitely close to being in front line of rehabs moving into the area; it's just a little sketchy at the moment.

Thanks for any and all insight!

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Specialist · Spokane, WA · Member since 2014 · 97 posts · 38 votes
12y

Travis, eventually you need to hook up with an experienced contractor who you trust. In the mean time, in our area we just ask the building department for a "safety check". There are no fees, and the inspectors are very reasonable. It is not in their interest to be authoritarian, they understand your position. But if there is a real hazard or violation they'll tell you. It shouldn't worry you. If there is that big a problem you need to know anyway. If you go the route of un-licensed contractors and short-cuts, and do a lot of rehab, then the inspectors will find out about you in a bad way. That is what you should worry about. Do it right and be transparent.

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  • Specialist · Spokane, WA · Member since 2014 · 97 posts · 38 votes
    12y

    Travis, eventually you need to hook up with an experienced contractor who you trust. In the mean time, in our area we just ask the building department for a "safety check". There are no fees, and the inspectors are very reasonable. It is not in their interest to be authoritarian, they understand your position. But if there is a real hazard or violation they'll tell you. It shouldn't worry you. If there is that big a problem you need to know anyway. If you go the route of un-licensed contractors and short-cuts, and do a lot of rehab, then the inspectors will find out about you in a bad way. That is what you should worry about. Do it right and be transparent.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    I've bought more properties with code violations than without. I've yet to buy one where money and effort wouldn't solve the problem. Sometimes I deal with it, sometimes my end buyers deal with it. Are you talking about actual code violations where a warning or citation was issued? Or do you mean "not up to code"? There is a huge difference.

  • Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 44 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Thanks @Patrick T. . I definitely am still working on building a team to handle all of the work, including a licensed GC. I want to make sure the work is done properly, with the necessary permits, and up to code. It's all about reputation and I want to make sure my reputation will eventually precede me when it comes to REI and working with all entities. Your reassurance to not worry is very helpful and very much appreciated!

    @K. Marie Pope I'm talking about code violations where there are many failed city inspections as well as a laundry list of building code citations. Some; however, seem fairly simple to fix (CO detector is missing), while others I fear may be more complicated without knowing what the original construction actually was (Remove work performed without permit and restore building or site to original construction.) What does seem to be in this property's favor though is that the city has already issued most of the permits for the work and citations that this property is in violation of. Does that help?

    Do you mind elaborating a little more on the main differences between "bringing up to code" vs. "violations and citations"? I can only assume that the citations will also come with fine and penalties?

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
    12y

    What are codes? Seriously, most of my properties are outside of the city limits (small towns at that), and I've almost never had to pull a permit or deal with codes. One of the advantages of living in the Southland. The only time I've had to deal with anything even remotely close was when I bought an REO inside the city limits in one town in my area. Since it had set empty for a long time, the electric company made me have it inspected by the electrical codes guy before they would turn on the electricity.

  • Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 44 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    @Bryan L. Are you ready for the laundry list???? :)

    • Plumbing and draining - fixtures backing up
    • Bathroom/kitchen ceiling leaks
    • Low water pressure
    • Entire building inspection
    • Replace broken window panes
    • Remove drug wrappers in stairwells and around property
    • Courtyard stairs have broken treads
    • Repair holes and cracks in walls
    • Ceiling has water damage
    • Replace doors with proper fire door closures
    • Replace damaged/missing screens
    • Replace smoke and co detectors
    • Rear brick addition not to original structure. Will need plans and permits
    • Rear brick addition has hanging & missing mortar & east wall is bowed out. It is dangerous & hazardous
    • Rear roof overhang has rotted and loose wood
    • Replace defective meter socket
    • Install emergency lighting
    • Install covers on junction boxes and outlets
    • Exterminate insects and rodents
    • Replace front stairwell skylight
    • Building rear 2 story wood porch 6x6 columns are erected on concrete blocks. 6x6 columns are double cut for rim joists. Beams are 6x6 extended for 9' in length. Loose and missing pickets, guard rails secured to walls with nails only. Plans and permit for repairs
    • Remove all partitions - including plumbing and electric - installed in the basement and enclosed porch with one story brick building addition being used as part of 1st floor dwelling unit with out a building permit.
    • Submit plans and obtain permit for all related work to authorize alterations to basement or restore the building to the original state. 4037 - Submit plans and obtain permit for enclosed rear porch and brick one story addition now being used as part of the 1st floor dwelling unit.
    • Window trim and sashes are rotting
    • Failed to maintain the exterior walls of a building or structure free from holes, breaks, loose or rotting boards or timbers and any other conditions which might admit rain or dampness to the walls
    • Knowingly performed construction work in violation of stop work order. (Tuckpointing in progress without permit)
    • Center stairwell - treads are loose, deck boards are rotting, and tiles are missing
    • Holes in walls
    • Exterminate roaches
    • Replace 6 hot water tanks per violation only, no electrical

    The rest of the citations and violations are cosmetic and practical things. Tub finish, outlet covers, deadbolts, clean up yard, post owner sign on fence, etc. etc.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    I still don't understand who did these inspections and for what purpose? When and why was the property inspected? Were any citations issued? Citations usually mean fines to cure and re-inspect. Sometimes they are recorded against the property title as well. Be mindful that there may be additional citations or warnings in the works that are not included in your current list.

    If a muni agency did the inspections and made these requests then they'll have to be satisfied for habitability. Be sure you get a full understanding of the costs for any necessary permits to get rid of and/or remediate everything. Where I am you have to have a permit to do any kind of demo due, even minor, due to air quality control issues. Also make sure you get a full understanding of the costs of any fines, penalties and interest generated by the current violations.

  • Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2013 · 43 posts · 20 votes
    12y

    Travis, I have bought a 4 family in 2008 under condemned status. It was a lot of work, but worth it compared to the other quads available at the time. I still own and rent it. You must get a huge price differential discount over props without all the issues as you buying much hassle. May not be worth it if the building inspectors have it out for that prop. Josh

  • Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
    12y

    It doesn't seem overly hard to get those items cleared up but like @Josh Rowley mentioned maybe not worth it to fix since it looks like the inspectors have it out for this property. I see they already have stop work orders for all things tuckpointing the exterior bricks? Talk about being PITAs...

  • Specialist · Spokane, WA · Member since 2014 · 97 posts · 38 votes
    12y

    Travis,

    Everybody loves to be needed (even inspectors). If you have a plan and a "stand up" attitude for getting that building into compliance and providing housing (which is a key element of the building department's mission), then you become an ally of the building department. Those guys may seem tough, but it's all about connecting with their professionalism. Show up as the person who is going to eliminate these issues, and I'll bet they give you more support than you expected. Don't work from a position of fear or dread...or pre-conceived notions about inspectors. Build it...they always come.

  • Joshua BurkePro Member
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 35 posts · 14 votes
    12y

    Hi Travis,

    We just bought a 2 flat in Chicago with many violations and a court order preventing occupancy. This will cause a delay of course, but it's a solid property in a great area. We've started work and will be done in about three weeks. It will rent for over $4000/month when we're finished.

    It is possible to work with the City and get the violations addressed. Most everything on your list would have to be fixed anyway. I will say however, that this may be a big bite as you're just getting started. But if the price is right and your up for a fight (with contractors and inspectors), then go for it!

    Many investors are scared off of issues like this, so you can usually get a great deal.

    I'd be happy to pass along my porch company and the expediter I use. Send me a PM for details.

    Good Luck,

    JB

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    12y

    @Travis Russell - I recommend a expediter if it is in the city of Chicago. I would take @Joshua Burke up on his referral I had to use one before but I don't have their info

  • Mike B.Pro Member
    Developer · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 440 posts · 361 votes
    12y

    I'm not scared of dealing with properties that have building violations, but it definitely needs to be worth the hassle. What neighborhood is this property in? How much are you picking it up for? Those two answers will help me in determining if you can find a better deal. I can tell you honestly that I have passed on picking up properties in C- areas with violation lists shorter than those for $20k because buying a property in the same area for $45k will cut that list down dramatically.

  • Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 44 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    @K. Marie Poe the citations were from complains (assuming from tenants) that were filed with the city. There are many records of a citation issued, an inspection which failed, and the citation was recorded a second or third time.

    @Josh Rowley thanks for sharing your story and for the encouragement! Good to know that it was a headache but worth it in the end.

    @George Paiva agreed, but it looks like the only "stop work order" is on the tuckpointing. The rest seem to be reasonable, and something that I would want to correct anyway, especially with some of them being safety hazards.

    @Patrick T. that's really great advice and a great reminder! So true - everyone likes and want to feel that they are needed and important. But I think you hit it right on the head that if I approach them about all of the issues that haven't been corrected before (especially with many having been cited, inspected, and failed) and want to turn a mess into a home for 6 families, then I agree that they would likely want to help me get it done. It gets it off of their naughty list then too! Win-Win :)

    @Joshua Burke Hi Josh! I agree 100%…most of it would need to be fixed anyway. It is a big project to consider taking on with starting out!!! But I left my full-time job to dedicate myself exclusively into REI and create homes. I was honestly tired of always feel like I was taking from people while working in Corp. America, and now want to do something that gives back to the community while still creating an income. Half charitable drive and half self-motivated for income and financial gains.

    They have reduced the price by more than half in only 3 months on the market so I wouldn't hesitate going in with a low ball offer and seeing what happens. Worst they can say is no, right!? I have the capital so now it's just finding the right property and the right team. I'll PM you for your porch and expeditors details. If this property doesn't work out, it's good to have a solid list of reputable people that are recommended from BP.

    @Brie Schmidt I definitely will! Yes it's in the city and I plan on keeping my focus in the city for future projects so it's better to learn the rules for one area. There are more than enough areas within the city limits that are undergoing regentrification so the inventory should be there for a long time.

    @Mike B. It's in Garfield Park, just west of the city. They are selling 2 3-flats together for 6 units total between 2 buildings. The original list was $119k, and has been reduced to $56.5k. I still feel like that's high for other properties even on the same street. All of the others need just as much work, and some even are still occupied. I definitely want to avoid any occupied buildings!! I fear my conscience couldn't handle making a LI family move out.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Nothing on the list looked difficult to cure and would most likely happen an any major rehab anyway. But the comment about the bowing wall in the brick addition is troublesome. Once an inspector uses the word "dangerous" I'd be careful. I've found that some inspectors can be beyond unreasonable with structural concerns. Most of the general housing inspectors aren't trained in engineering and will get very rigid on stuff they perceive as structurally unsound. Make sure you know if you'll be allowed to shore up that wall (if possible) or if you are looking at a teardown or rebuild.

  • Mike B.Pro Member
    Developer · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 440 posts · 361 votes
    12y

    I think you have a good deal. Just a quick search of Garfield Park showed one active 3 flat for $45k (short sale), the next true 3 flat is $79.9k (subject to court approval). My cost to acquire and rehab a multi in this area is $40k per unit (generally speaking). Your purchase price per building is $28.25k which means you have $91,500 per building in rehab available. You may have a different budget and you also may have a different scope of rehab in mind as opposed to what I do for my investors so take my analysis with a grain of salt.

  • Rehabber · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 44 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    @k.marie poe I agree with you, most things on the list would want to be addressed. I share the same concern with the brick bowing. From the citations, it appears to have been added and not part of the original structure so I am curious if it would even need to be there? I haven't seen the property yet, but wonder if it was added as utility or storage. I can't imagine that it was a structural addition for living space due to the nature of the architecture. Most of these brownstones are similar in layout and I haven't seen any that had major structural changes. But I'm definitely remaining cautious about that detail in particular!

    @Mike B. Thanks! That's good to hear. I know there is another 2-flat about 4 doors down that's at auction, and will most likely go for significantly less. I'm meeting with my realtor later today to discuss this property and a few others. She works with some investors and is very in tune with the market. She's a shark!!! I think I could actually get it for less considering the price history and length of time on the market.

    I am starting to compile a very high level budget for the rehab to estimate my costs. I know this one will require longer holding costs, and I'm also checking to see if they are deeded under one pin or two separate. And if they are one, if the parcels can be separated. That would at least allow one to be completed and back on the market while the other gets finished. And I think that may be more appealing to buy/hold investors. More to come!

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 74 posts · 35 votes
    12y

    @Travis Russell sounds like you've got a good one!

    What kind of tenants are you marketing towards, market rate or Sec 8?

    Just be sure not to over-improve the buildings. Garfield Park is hard to hit good ARV numbers and refi all your money back out.

    Just my 2 cents!

  • Involved In Real Estate · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    @Travis Russell tell us what happen?

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