Guys I'm sorry for overloading the forum, but this is a very important question and would like some advice before taking things to the extreme. I am an active duty Marine, I work from 4:30 am to 8:00pm. On weekends , i'm a part time real estate agent trying make a few extra bucks. I did a horrible job at vetting this tenant for my ADU, however, I have done nothing but right by this tenant and has numerously asked that she put her boyfriend on the lease to ensure he is covered for rental insurance to keep me safe. She refuses to do so, bc he has legal issues and want qualify and meet the lease requirements. With that, she has made threats about me not treating her fairly and claims to counsel with the fair housing rights bc I have asked her to put him on the lease and now wants her latest rental payment and deposit. What would you do or what paper work can suffice for this ill legitimate letter.
If the boyfriend is living there and he isn't on the lease it's a lease violation and you can evict. Let her know this fact.
If your local town has an Apartment Association I recommend joining as they will give you information on all things real estate. My local apartment association even gives members a lease that's plain English and approved by the state Attorney General and the lease definitely protects a landlord against things like this.
Don't let this tenant push you around! If you're overwhelmed I would look for a real estate attorney who can either send her a letter stating she's broken the lease by having another person living there or if you'd prefer the attorney can go straight toward eviction. There are some real estate attorneys who will even give you a set price up front for the eviction cost so you are aware as to what it will cost.
#2 1031 Exchanges Contributor
- Investor
- Las Vegas, NV
Hire a PM. It’ll be the best $100-$200/mo you’ve ever spent.
#1 All Forums Contributor
- Investor
- Virginia
@Jazzous Anderson
Get an attorney and have them deal with this. Everything she has written appears to be opinion and not fact
Attorney will deal with this and tell her “I have forwarded everything to our attorney and please forward all future communication to them”
That typically gets them to pull back quickly
Yes it costs money - that’s reality of being a landlord
What @Chris Seveney said.
As soon as they make these kinds of accusations, inform them that henceforth all communications will need to be through your attorney. They don't get to sabre-rattle, threatening legal action and still maintain the same relationship with you. Hiring counsel will give you the confidence and piece of mind to focus on your very demanding everyday life while you disentangle yourself from this woman.
I'm a bit confused about her status. Has she vacated? If so, has she indicated such by leaving the keys and/or notifying you in writing? If she hasn't, put this on your attorney's plate, as well.
This is an important lession you've learned and I am sure you will modify your processes moving forward to avoid this situation in the future. Indeed, tenant screening is 80% of the secret sauce.
Good luck!
I would hold off on doing anything.
You shouldn't continue conversations with tenants after they leave. Do your inspection, deal with the deposit, and end it. If she continues to reach out, block her. If she mails you a letter, file it but don't respond.
I can tell from the way she writes that this is not a normal person. You made the mistake of trying to treat her like a normal, honest person. She senses the weakness and will try to take advantage of the situation.
I think there's a 90% chance she will disappear if you ignore her. Even if she does file a complaint with HUD, she would have to prove her case. You warned her about smoking dope, and she responded with a heart, which indicates she agrees with your claim. I don't see much danger here.
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Jazzous Anderson
Get an attorney and have them deal with this. Everything she has written appears to be opinion and not fact
Attorney will deal with this and tell her “I have forwarded everything to our attorney and please forward all future communication to them”
That typically gets them to pull back quickly
Yes it costs money - that’s reality of being a landlord
This right here....
#3 Market Trends & Data Contributor
- Developer
- New York City, NY
Quote from @Jazzous Anderson:
Sorry to hear that you are going though this. Watch what you say and type as it can be used against you; even if you didn't mean anything negative or derogatory.
Inform them that you've forwarded everything to your attorney, and they will be in touch with you shortly. Ask your attorney to send a letter to these lovely people and do not communicate with them any further.
Most importantly, get a PM to deal with this. You are allowing a former tenant to do what you want. It's YOUR property, and she's in violation of the lease. In the future, since you are active military and not always home, place cameras around your home, at the very least, so you can see what's going on when you are not there.
If I hired an attorney every time a person threatened a law suit or to seek legal representation, I might as well have one on retainer as it happens a lot.
The tenant gave notice. I do not allow tenants to retract notice without my approval. If they were my tenant I would proceed the same as any other tenant that had given notice. I would provide checkout instruction and checklist, offer a pre-move out inspection, and expect them out on the day that they indicated.
I would determine if the new CA anti-squatter law applies (do the research now). I would think it does because they terminated their tenancy and now are squatting.
If the law applies and they have not vacated the unit on the day they provided, get the sheriff to remove them (squatters no longer are required to be evicted).
If it does not apply, then I would wait to see if this escalates. In its current state I would be unconcerned. I have been threatened with lawsuits dozens of times. I have never personally been sued.
Threats are made in hopes to bully other people to get what they desire. They are typically groundless claims made by people with no clue. I have had smokers threaten to sue as though it is a protected class. I have had a lawyer threaten multiple times to sue because he does not like the way his easement through my property looks. I call him two-bit and tell him I keep waiting to be served. He currently heads in the other direction (almost runs) when I go his way. He is a bully who thought he could bully me. I have been threatened multiple times by someone that does not like the agreement he made to sell me a property (sellers remorse but it occurred 2 years after I acquired the property - or at least that is when he first communicated it to me (I told him I did not have a Time Machine).
Lawsuits are often threatened but most never amount More than a threat.
I'm a little confused of what's going on here. If she is in fact leaving, great! Rather than a vague text, I would feel better having her sign an actual notice specifying her exit.
If the boyfriend is an issue, that has to be tackled immediately. Some cities (after 30 days) will give him full status as a tenant if you do nothing. He would have to be fully screened to be allowed on the lease. If he's there and won't leave per notice, send notice and start evicting quickly. You need an eviction attorney.
Quote from @Bill Brandt:
Hire a PM. It’ll be the best $100-$200/mo you’ve ever spent.
definitely looking into one right now!
Quote from @Henry T.:
I'm a little confused of what's going on here. If she is in fact leaving, great! Rather than a vague text, I would feel better having her sign an actual notice specifying her exit.
If the boyfriend is an issue, that has to be tackled immediately. Some cities (after 30 days) will give him full status as a tenant if you do nothing. He would have to be fully screened to be allowed on the lease. If he's there and won't leave per notice, send notice and start evicting quickly. You need an eviction attorney.
So from her messages she had to go back home (this is LA I believe) so I asked for clarification if that meant she wanted to terminate her lease as I didn't want to make assumptions. She said, she needed this month to get things situated etc etc she confirmed this was her last month through text. So I proceeded to send her a move out checklist, 30 day notice, and I even waived the fee for breaking the lease which is 2 months rent. She never signed the notice and proceeded to then send me this notice -thru usps to ensure signature upon delivery. Requesting that I pay her to move since I'm influencing her and not allowing her boyfriend to live here. Which in the letter she also admits that he must be on the lease to do so. Which he is not...
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
I would hold off on doing anything.
You shouldn't continue conversations with tenants after they leave. Do your inspection, deal with the deposit, and end it. If she continues to reach out, block her. If she mails you a letter, file it but don't respond.
I can tell from the way she writes that this is not a normal person. You made the mistake of trying to treat her like a normal, honest person. She senses the weakness and will try to take advantage of the situation.
I think there's a 90% chance she will disappear if you ignore her. Even if she does file a complaint with HUD, she would have to prove her case. You warned her about smoking dope, and she responded with a heart, which indicates she agrees with your claim. I don't see much danger here.
Her lease is still active. She has a one year lease. She never signed a 30 day notice to terminate. So she's still a tenant. My thought process leads me to believe that she wants to leave but needs the relocation fees. I already waived her termination fee which would be $3600. She could have signed the papers to leave end of April, walked away and gotten her $500 security deposit if there were no damages.
Quote from @Dan Heuschele:
If I hired an attorney every time a person threatened a law suit or to seek legal representation, I might as well have one on retainer as it happens a lot.
The tenant gave notice. I do not allow tenants to retract notice without my approval. If they were my tenant I would proceed the same as any other tenant that had given notice. I would provide checkout instruction and checklist, offer a pre-move out inspection, and expect them out on the day that they indicated.
I would determine if the new CA anti-squatter law applies (do the research now). I would think it does because they terminated their tenancy and now are squatting.
If the law applies and they have not vacated the unit on the day they provided, get the sheriff to remove them (squatters no longer are required to be evicted).
If it does not apply, then I would wait to see if this escalates. In its current state I would be unconcerned. I have been threatened with lawsuits dozens of times. I have never personally been sued.
Threats are made in hopes to bully other people to get what they desire. They are typically groundless claims made by people with no clue. I have had smokers threaten to sue as though it is a protected class. I have had a lawyer threaten multiple times to sue because he does not like the way his easement through my property looks. I call him two-bit and tell him I keep waiting to be served. He currently heads in the other direction (almost runs) when I go his way. He is a bully who thought he could bully me. I have been threatened multiple times by someone that does not like the agreement he made to sell me a property (sellers remorse but it occurred 2 years after I acquired the property - or at least that is when he first communicated it to me (I told him I did not have a Time Machine).
Lawsuits are often threatened but most never amount More than a threat.
She gave notice through text when I sent her an official document she took it as I'm "influencing her" or pressuring her. Everything is in the text, I literally asked for clarification. She ignored it all, then I get this handwritten letter with several photos of references to what she believe justifies her case.
Any agreement to waive the termination fee should be qualified by her signing the agreement and being out by the specified date. That way, she has incentive that will disappear if she doesn't sign, or doesn't leave by that date. I would also qualify it on no damages that exceed the security deposit.
Hopefully you have detailed pictures before renting, and is a good reason for regular inspections to check that HVAC and other equipment is functioning properly, and allows inspection for damage from leaking roofs, etc., as well as tenant damage. All part of what a PM is responsible for. And they should know the laws that you may not be aware of.
Quote from @Jazzous Anderson:
Quote from @Dan Heuschele:
If I hired an attorney every time a person threatened a law suit or to seek legal representation, I might as well have one on retainer as it happens a lot.
The tenant gave notice. I do not allow tenants to retract notice without my approval. If they were my tenant I would proceed the same as any other tenant that had given notice. I would provide checkout instruction and checklist, offer a pre-move out inspection, and expect them out on the day that they indicated.
I would determine if the new CA anti-squatter law applies (do the research now). I would think it does because they terminated their tenancy and now are squatting.
If the law applies and they have not vacated the unit on the day they provided, get the sheriff to remove them (squatters no longer are required to be evicted).
If it does not apply, then I would wait to see if this escalates. In its current state I would be unconcerned. I have been threatened with lawsuits dozens of times. I have never personally been sued.
Threats are made in hopes to bully other people to get what they desire. They are typically groundless claims made by people with no clue. I have had smokers threaten to sue as though it is a protected class. I have had a lawyer threaten multiple times to sue because he does not like the way his easement through my property looks. I call him two-bit and tell him I keep waiting to be served. He currently heads in the other direction (almost runs) when I go his way. He is a bully who thought he could bully me. I have been threatened multiple times by someone that does not like the agreement he made to sell me a property (sellers remorse but it occurred 2 years after I acquired the property - or at least that is when he first communicated it to me (I told him I did not have a Time Machine).
Lawsuits are often threatened but most never amount More than a threat.
She gave notice through text when I sent her an official document she took it as I'm "influencing her" or pressuring her. Everything is in the text, I literally asked for clarification. She ignored it all, then I get this handwritten letter with several photos of references to what she believe justifies her case.
I read both the text and the letter. My unprofessional opinion is there is some bi-polar ordering influence.
I would take the notice as having been given. I would not ask again for her to clarify. I would proceed with your standard move out process.
I would not consult an attorney at this time. There is not much a threat but even when people tell me I will be hearing from their lawyer, it does not happen. Even when a lawyer tells me we will see what a judge thinks, it does not happen. I did tell the lawyer my lawyer like frivolous suits from lawyers as judges on generous with legal fees in such circumstances. Two-bit lawyer cursed at me, I laughed.
There is very low chance any legal action is forth coming towards you.
By the way I recently gave notice to tenants for smoking. Not smoking in the unit, just smoking. We do not rent to smokers. Tenants lied so they got notice. They got their notice after being in the unit less than 1 week. Know anyone looking to rent a large (1140’) 2BR, 1.5 Ba in Escondido?
Vacancy is a minor nuisance. A bad tenant, lying tenant, etc can be a big nuisance.
good luck
Quote from @Jazzous Anderson:Sorry, something about the way she writes indicated this was all past-tense.
Her lease is still active. She has a one year lease. She never signed a 30 day notice to terminate. So she's still a tenant. My thought process leads me to believe that she wants to leave but needs the relocation fees. I already waived her termination fee which would be $3600. She could have signed the papers to leave end of April, walked away and gotten her $500 security deposit if there were no damages.
Stick to your policies. She has an unauthorized tenant. She is smoking weed in the unit. She needs to go.
If it were me, I would give her a very short, written notice citing the violations. Then I would give tell her she can vacate the unit within 30 days, pay everything owed, and you'll forgive the early termination fee or any other penalties. If she insists on staying and playing games, you'll hold her accountable and she can face termination, eviction, early termination fees, or whatever else that entails.