Ohio Cashflow LLC Review, 2018

[Account Closed]

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

 Prices going up likely have more to do with the market than the company. The market has steadily increased most everywhere in the country over the last few years. Market is always moving, they can't sell you something that isn't available. 2018 Pricing won't touch 2013 pricing anywhere.

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

Hi Ahmet,

Thanks for spending the time to compose such a detailed review about Ohio Cashflow.

Although experience is very important when it comes to success in real estate, finding and working with the right people is even more important.

As long as those folks are experienced at what they do and always have your best interest at heart. Then you should have nothing to worry about.

For many years now we have been telling investors to use their own expense deductions when calculating a return on investment.

Our marketing team only quotes the “hard costs” as in - taxes, insurance and property management fees.

We suggest discounting another 15% from the bottom line for maintenance and vacancy but I’d much prefer for everyone to OVERESTIMATE the expenses and UNDERESTIMATE the income using their own calculations.

If the numbers work out then, the investment might be worth pursuing further.

Classifying areas can sometimes get convoluted.

Since I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth and consider myself a working class guy, my perception of B class might be someone’s of “Z class” lol

My advice to all is to visit town and see the areas for themselves.

I’m confident they will be impressed.

Especially if they have already toured other markets with similar price points to ours.

Real estate is a rollercoaster of a ride and as much as we want to make it hands off/passive. It isn’t always the case.

Our team will need direction from time to time especially when unexpected expenses come up.

Over the years we have witnessed many investors with magical expectations of making millions within a year (My name isn’t David Copperfield) and that just isn’t the case).

If you aren’t willing to buy multiple properties and hold them long term, you will mostly likely loose money.

I’ll repeat that for everyone :)

If you aren’t willing to buy multiple properties and hold long them term, you will mostly likely loose money.

“Safety comes in numbers”

Also, in my opinion you should NEVER invest what your can’t comfortably afford to loose.

You are 100% correct about prices increasing over the years.

The answer is quite simple. Our company has grown and we now have a bigger “starving crowd to feed” (Employees, vendors, etc…) so we are looking to make as much money and maximize profits on every deal.

I’ve always told investors that if you are more focused on the money that we make, rather than the value you get. We probably shouldn’t be working together.

“Price is what you pay and value is what you get”.

It took years of so much risk and sacrifice to become one of the best in the industry and we deserve every penny we earn and more (Not many know of how long it took to get here and what we do behind the scenes for everyone. That’s the “overnight success” that was 8 years in the making).

We are honored to have you on board mate and don’t hesitate to reach out to us anytime.

We are always happy to help.

Thanks again and speak soon

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

 Prices going up likely have more to do with the market than the company. The market has steadily increased most everywhere in the country over the last few years. Market is always moving, they can't sell you something that isn't available. 2018 Pricing won't touch 2013 pricing anywhere.

Hi James,

It's a bit weird here in Toledo as everyone is touting that "the market has never been better".

We don't see it tho and are still picking up some great deals for great prices.

Granted, we are super active will all of our acquisition efforts and I've said it before so I'll say it again.

We feel like kids in a candy store lol

Thanks mate

ps. Great job on your social media. The Youtube video's look great 

[Alan Fitzpatrick]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

Hi Ahmet, could you go more into specifics on the financials of either of these purchases? Mainly the cap rate and everything you are considering to arrive at that number. Are you considering vacancy, repairs, capex, etc in your calculations? 

From what I've seen of their listings, they're typically only considering tax, insurance, and property management. 

While I believe the buyer has the responsibility to do their own research, and many properties may still be good that they have for sale, it seems deceptive to me.

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Alan Fitzpatrick:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Hi,

I’ve purchased two properties via Ohio Cashflow ~6 months ago and I would like to share my experience. Before I made my decision, people’s reviews helped a lot so I would like to help future investors make a more informed decision.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the experience. I will comment on what I liked and what were some of the “bumps in the road”.

About me:

I am an academic, I do nerdy things to make a living. I’ve never bought/sold a house before my deal with OCF thus I am inexperienced when it comes to investing. I point this out because I know there are people out there who are looking into investing in turnkey but hesitate because they are inexperienced as well. I am living proof that you can invest in turnkey without a background in real estate investment. My experience so far was very satisfying.

My experience with the company:

+ I've reached out to them. After initial phone talks and we decided that it is a good match, I informed them about my goal: I have Y amount of money and I would like to purchase houses that have 2X% (two times X, not 20+) net cap rate. (An idea about the numbers. 3X (three times X) = a cap rate that you would consider a good deal even for a REI professional living and working in Toledo. As an out-of-state investor I hoped for 2/3 of it, which is roughly the average cap rate OCF delivers.) You know the rumor that turnkey companies exaggerate numbers and you never get what was written on initial proposal, this is not the case for me. If I calculate my actual cap rate after 6 months by using their convention (Subtracting insurance, tax, property management from gross income) numbers match, thus I am getting what was promised on my proposal. In that regard I can say that they deliver what they promise, there is no sugarcoating in the marketing/offer phase.

+ I’ve surveyed the forum a lot about which are the good parts in Toledo to invest (different people’s views on A, B, C class areas etc.) and I can say that my properties are located in good neighborhoods (one is B class, other one is like A-, B+ish). The neighborhoods that company owner Engelo Rumora describes as “rough” in the forum, they don’t sell houses from those neighborhoods as far as I can observe. In that regard their promise of selling solid B class properties was fulfilled for my deals.

+ Formalities can be taken care of very easily, they are using the online system called DocuSign and you can sign everything online. This way paperwork is very easy to deal with.

+ I am very happy with the property management company as well. They are also very responsive. (PM company is managed by OCF)

+ One of my properties was already tenanted. It has been performing very smoothly, zero unexpected expenses + having the rent steadily in my account every month. Thus that property was like the ideal turnkey experience so far.

+ Renovation of my 2nd property took a bit longer than expected. When the renovations ended, it took some time to find a tenant. But in the end when property managers found a tenant, they have signed a 2-year lease which was good news. Also in the property management agreement it is stated that PM company charges you a month’s rent if they find a new tenant for you. However, due to this delay we’ve experienced and the fact that property wasn’t occupied when I bought it, OCF sales team told me that they waive this “new-tenant finding fee” for me for my first tenant thus I was not charged. They are not greedy. You as an investor also shouldn’t be greedy and it’s a perfect match :) (To prevent a misunderstanding: I knew the property was being renovated and unoccupied at the time of purchase, they've informed me during the offer.)

+ In my 2nd property a well pump issue showed up after the renovations have finished. I roughly had to pay a month’s rent for that maintenance issue.

Expenses like these (maintenance, vacancy) are inevitable in RE business so I deliberately mention them here to give you an idea on what to expect. RE is not a magical business that prints money no matter what. OCF is transparent about this. They help you resolve issues that show up, thus my last two bullet points are not negative feedback about the company. They rather are remarks regarding to nature of RE business.

Some remarks:

+ It looks like as OCF becomes more well-known and establishes itself as a more and more trustworthy company, prices are slightly sliding upwards (cap rates slightly decrease) and threshold to make a deal with them (initial price that you have to pay to buy a house) increases. This is my observation, I may be wrong and would appreciate corrections. Anyways, this is understandable. Initial investors who made deals with them got better deals because there were much fewer reviews available to make sure that OCF is trustworthy. Less known OCF, fewer reviews, fewer investor testimonial videos means investors taking a higher risk while investing with them, thus it is natural that those people were having more appealing deals. Today we’re expected to pay a bit more because we know that we are doing business with a well-established, trustworthy company with a huge online presence. We know that we are taking a smaller risk, which naturally means a higher cost. The reason I am mentioning this is, if you are thinking about buying a house from them, it is very likely that the earlier you buy the better deals you’ll get. (I am not confident when it comes to future-telling thus this is just my naïve prediction)

I am happy to help anyone who is interested in learning further about my experience with the company, you can message me. If this sounded like a shilling post (new member, first post etc) I would be happy to provide ID’s and proof of purchase to forum moderators if needed as well. When I feel like I have enough new info about\experience with the company that is worth posting an update, I may post an update.

Thanks OCF team for starting my RE investment journey.

Thanks,

Ahmet

Hi Ahmet, could you go more into specifics on the financials of either of these purchases? Mainly the cap rate and everything you are considering to arrive at that number. Are you considering vacancy, repairs, capex, etc in your calculations? 

From what I've seen of their listings, they're typically only considering tax, insurance, and property management. 

While I believe the buyer has the responsibility to do their own research, and many properties may still be good that they have for sale, it seems deceptive to me.

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your comment but it seems like you have an ulterior motive.

Can I ask what it is?

If you read my comment above, you would have seen this:

"For many years now we have been telling investors to use their own expense deductions when calculating a return on investment.

Our marketing team only quotes the “hard costs” as in - taxes, insurance and property management fees.

We suggest discounting another 15% from the bottom line for maintenance and vacancy but I’d much prefer for everyone to OVERESTIMATE the expenses and UNDERESTIMATE the income using their own calculations.

If the numbers work out then, the investment might be worth pursuing further."

When we first connect with every investor, we clearly stress that they should always overestimate their expenses and underestimate their income.

We don't include expenses that are variable like vacancy, repairs and capex.

We offer a suggestion on what they could be based on the past but we plead with everyone to underestimate their income and overestimate their expenses.

Thanks again

[ChokSheak Lau]

Lost a lot of money with mismanaged rentals. Property manager Oz Realty tried overcharging me for maintenance costs, and refused to produce invoice for any work done. The owner Engelo is no longer contactable. Quality is going downhill and things are no longer as good as they were a few years back.

[Michael P.]

Hi @ChokSheak Lau,

This is the opposite of my experience with Oz Realty.  The charges, which are rare, are very reasonable.  I live in a coastal market so perhaps everything in the Midwest seems reasonable to me, but I have never felt overcharged.  Repair costs are clearly explained in the monthly statement.  
@Engelo Rumora is just a call, email, or text message away so that part of your post is simply false and makes me question the motive of your post.

[ChokSheak Lau]

Hi @Michael P., thanks for weighing in your experience. You getting reasonable charges does not mean everyone is getting reasonable charges. I never got any invoices with my monthly statements, and I believe you didn't either. I don't have Engelo's phone number, and the last time I emailed him, I got an automated robot reply. My post is definitely not false and I have no motives other than bringing up the facts of what happened. You are welcome to hold your own views but to think that the world is perfect because things are going fine for you, I don't think is sound. I don't question your motives but I don't think you should have any reason to question mine's either

[Engelo Rumora]

Originally posted by @Michael P.:

Hi @ChokSheak Lau,

This is the opposite of my experience with Oz Realty.  The charges, which are rare, are very reasonable.  I live in a coastal market so perhaps everything in the Midwest seems reasonable to me, but I have never felt overcharged.  Repair costs are clearly explained in the monthly statement.  
@Engelo Rumora is just a call, email, or text message away so that part of your post is simply false and makes me question the motive of your post.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike,

Although I don’t appreciate this being public, we aren’t perfect by any means and I’ll look into the issues Chok has been experiencing with the team and his properties.

I’ll be posting my reply on this thread - https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

Happy New Year to all 

[Rajesh Patel]

OCF

[Rajesh Patel]

i have had a terrible experience with OCF. They ripped me off on two properties in Toledo.  They claimed to be complete renovations but as i did not see them i took their word for it.  Both houses were in poor condition.  Has anyone else had this experience with them?

[Ahmet C.]

Originally posted by @Rajesh Patel:

i have had a terrible experience with OCF. They ripped me off on two properties in Toledo.  They claimed to be complete renovations but as i did not see them i took their word for it.  Both houses were in poor condition.  Has anyone else had this experience with them?

 Hello, looks like yours is not the only horror story. You can check out my and @ChokSheak Lau 's posts in the page 9 of the topic below:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/185261-ohio-cashflow-llc?page=9#p5470978

[Zachary Schimenz]

I had a terrible experience as well. I lost about $25,000 buying one of their "fully renovated" properties (it's in quotes for a reason). There's a reason they do cash only offers.... avoid these guys at all costs

[Engelo Rumora]

Since we are in the midst of a current "soap opera" on another thread, we might as well revive this thread and wake up some bears.

For additional context on the above matter 👆 along with a lot of back and forth, please click on this link - https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1089655-warning-dont-use-ohio-cash-flow-unless-you-want-to-lose-thousands-of-dollars?highlight_post=6744974&page=4#p6744974

I'll probably be back to address some of the other commentators at a later date, just need to get my armor and helmet ready along with historic data, etc...

Thanks 🙏

[Engelo Rumora]

Quote from @Rajesh Patel:

i have had a terrible experience with OCF. They ripped me off on two properties in Toledo.  They claimed to be complete renovations but as i did not see them i took their word for it.  Both houses were in poor condition.  Has anyone else had this experience with them?

Dear Rajesh,

It took me 3 years to reply to this review and am beyond saddened.

I've have spent hours looking through hundreds and hundreds of exchanged emails between us and I am left absolutely baffled.

Why? I truly don't understand...

It's beyond my belief...

For years, we held your hand every step of the way. 

Guiding, advising, meeting in person, hours on the phone, discounting on property price and services.

Properties appraised for more than you paid, you sold for more than you paid. Generated a great passive income and one day out of the blue completely turned on us

Both @Dominique Osborn and I considered you to be a personal friend as can be seen via our regular correspondence.

I'm sorry that someone you referred to as "brother" has fallen as much as I have in your eyes.

Why???

What a shame it has come to this and what a shame that you would post something like this.

My words aren't necessary and everything for all to see is in the images.

May God Bless you mate 🙏

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Rajesh Patel:

i have had a terrible experience with OCF. They ripped me off on two properties in Toledo.  They claimed to be complete renovations but as i did not see them i took their word for it.  Both houses were in poor condition.  Has anyone else had this experience with them?

Dear Rajesh,

It took me 3 years to reply to this review and am beyond saddened.

I've have spent hours looking through hundreds and hundreds of exchanged emails between us and I am left absolutely baffled.

Why? I truly don't understand...

It's beyond my belief...

For years, we held your hand every step of the way. 

Guiding, advising, meeting in person, hours on the phone, discounting on property price and services.

Properties appraised for more than you paid, you sold for more than you paid. Generated a great passive income and one day out of the blue completely turned on us

Both @Dominique Osborn and I considered you to be a personal friend as can be seen via our regular correspondence.

I'm sorry that someone you referred to as "brother" has fallen as much as I have in your eyes.

Why???

What a shame it has come to this and what a shame that you would post something like this.

My words aren't necessary and everything for all to see is in the images.

May God Bless you mate 🙏

 Goddam this dude is dramatic in his emails

[Engelo Rumora]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Engelo Rumora:

Quote from @Rajesh Patel:

i have had a terrible experience with OCF. They ripped me off on two properties in Toledo.  They claimed to be complete renovations but as i did not see them i took their word for it.  Both houses were in poor condition.  Has anyone else had this experience with them?

Dear Rajesh,

It took me 3 years to reply to this review and am beyond saddened.

I've have spent hours looking through hundreds and hundreds of exchanged emails between us and I am left absolutely baffled.

Why? I truly don't understand...

It's beyond my belief...

For years, we held your hand every step of the way. 

Guiding, advising, meeting in person, hours on the phone, discounting on property price and services.

Properties appraised for more than you paid, you sold for more than you paid. Generated a great passive income and one day out of the blue completely turned on us

Both @Dominique Osborn and I considered you to be a personal friend as can be seen via our regular correspondence.

I'm sorry that someone you referred to as "brother" has fallen as much as I have in your eyes.

Why???

What a shame it has come to this and what a shame that you would post something like this.

My words aren't necessary and everything for all to see is in the images.

May God Bless you mate 🙏

 Goddam this dude is dramatic in his emails

Pains me mate,

And this is just one tenth...

The relationship evolved more than just a "transaction" per se and one day out of the blue, we get the above review.

I was going to stay a sleeping bear but since I was poked on another thread, might as well wake up and get me some honey lol